"Don't do as I say do as I do" - So what else did Laois TD Seán Fleming say in the shop around RTÉ interview

Laois Offaly Fianna Fáil TD has landed in hot water after comments he made about the cost of living when interviewed on RTÉ Radio 1 by Sarah McInerney for the Drivetime show.

The Minister of State at the Department of Finance was asked first if the cost of living was the biggest threat facing Government.

He replied: "There are number of difficulties facing Government. If you were on two weeks you would say Covid, if you were on last week you would say housing was the biggest threat and this week you'd say it was the cost of living.

"So the Government has lots of serious threats that we have to manage as best we can. This is very much in the air now, in the last couple of months because in inflation has gone up because of the rising price of gas and fuel. Everybody sees it at the forecourt.

"So what the Government wants to do is...this inflation we expect will be with us for a number of months but not for several years so we want to do some items this year that will be once off for this year not ones that will have a permanent affect and a cost to the taxpayer when inflation eases and these measures are no longer necessary.

"So what is happening is the three party leaders, the Minister for Finance Pascal Donohoe and the Minister for Public Expenditure Michael McGrath are meeting this evening (Monday) in advance of tomorrow's meeting. So no decisions have been made yet and no outcome can be predicted at this stage of the process and we will have to wait and see what happens at the cabinet tomorrow but there is no leaks because at this stage no decisions have been made at all at this stage," he said.

It was put to him that the Opposition parties have said that 'the Government just doesn't get it' highlighting the need for speed and urgency due to the scale of the crisis. A tweet was quoted from a man in Wicklow on social welfare undergoing cancer treatment and who was unable to pay an electricity bill which has now been passed onto a debt collector. Sarah McInerney asked people are wondering when will the €100 be paid to cover power bills as promised.

He replied: "The legislation is going through the Dáil and I want to put on record that some of the Opposition parties have ridiculed it and at the same time are saying how quick will we get it having ridiculed it in the first place.

"So for that gentleman who phoned in with his major health issues and the ongoing problem he had with his fuel bill or heating bill that was referred to debt collectors months ago, I think that is separate issue from the spike in inflation that we are having. That man needs assistance from the money advice bureau or whoever can help him on that particular bill.

"But what we are talking about here are measures coming in as quickly as as possible. We mentioned €10, some people are saying it might be higher but there is no decision on that yet," he said.

It was then put to the Minister if anything happening as quickly as possible. She said inflation was being discussed as far back as last September in the Dáil. She said six months later people are asking for a €100 energy rebate.

He replied "We announced that (rebate) towards the end of last year and the quicker the Oireachtas passes the legislation the quicker the people will see the benefit of that rebate onto their bills in March. So those March bills will be coming up very soon. I think it's fair what you mentioned about the rising costs up to now.

"For example, people on the free fuel allowance have €800 or €900 benefit for the entire winter period. We increased it by €5 a week. We extended the number of weeks so we actually took measures last autumn to help people with some of the fuel bills. That is one classic example of what we have being doing but hopefully we can do more after Cabinet makes the decision. I am not saying it will be finalised tomorrow (Tuesday) but it will be discussed at the Cabinet tomorrow," he said.

It was further put to him that he may not be understanding the point and that opposition TDs and many others have been shouting about the issue of inflation for many months. She said a package of proposals may be announced this week but without a timeline for implementation. She said the only measure taken to date will not be implemented until next month.

He replied: "What I will say is, the measures that come to be announced by the Government when they make that announcement will be very quick because they will be once off adjustments that won't require a mini budget. It won't require a finance bill. It won't require a new social welfare bill like putting the budget through the Dáil that normally takes three and four and five months every autumn and into the winter. The measures that will be take will be once off that can be done administratively without having to go through all the extensive legislation so they can come through as quickly as possible.

"That will happen as quick as the decisions are made but again I am stressing, no decisions are made so I can't speculate as to what actually will be decided by the Cabinet during this week," he said.

It was put to him that Aontu TD Peadar Tobin had said that 60% of motor fuel prices is going to government in the form of tax but the Government has not asked the EU if it is possible to cut back on VAT.

He replied: "That is the classic example of what we are hearing from the opposition. The person who said that knows well that to get a change in the VAT rate would take a considerable period of time. The idea that that can be done next month to assist people who have immediate problems - the person who said that knows well that is not feasible. He is calling for something that he knows can't happen in a matter of days and yet yet he is complaining. The only suggestion he is making is something that can happen in the long term.

"We did say it is not a mini-budget where we are changing the tax rates and the social welfare rates. We want to see what we can do from an administrative level. For example we expect a full announcement tomorrow on one of the most ambitious retrofitting schemes ever in the State - up to 50% costs being borne by the State that is to reduce people's energy bills," he said.

The interviewer interrupted to say that the retrofit scheme is long term measure. She repeated the question that the Government had not asked the EU about the possibility of reducing VAT.

He replied: "I want to be fair to your listeners not to build up any false expectations thinking that there is going to be a mini-budget announced in the coming days or weeks that would involve major VAT reductions because that in itself would have to go through the budgetary process because people know it takes a number of months to get through the Dáil and that doesn't help anybody in the next two months.

"While we can talk about all those things, I don't want people to think that there is a mini budget coming this week or next week that can magically change the VAT rate. That is a big issue. Changing VAT rates would be a permanent change that would continue when it wouldn't be necessary when inflation decreases after a number of months.

"We want once off measures that will help people this year while inflation is high and next year when it is at a much lower level that those once off measures won't be required because we'll have got back to a more normal level of inflation, the very low level that we have been accustomed to for the last several years here in Ireland," he said.

He was then asked what he would tell the public to do and if they should brace themselves for pain.

He replied: "No. The main advice I would like your listeners to here today and it is so simple, people will get bored hearing it, is switch everything.

"Switch your electricity supplier and you'll get a reduced price. Switch your gas supplier if you are on gas. Switch whoever you get your home heating oil. Switch the shop or the supermarket that you do your weekly shopping in and you might find there is €20 or €30 in another place. Switch your insurance companies and switch your bank and your mortgage.

"All of those items. Everyone of them individually will save you hundreds of euro per year. It takes effort to shop and switch and if people make an effort they can save a lot of money.

"People will tell you they have changed insurance companies they have changed supermarkets they go to. They have changed their electricity supplier. 

"So, rather than just complaining and what the Government is going to do for me you can have a serious impact on your own finances but it involves people having to do some work themselves," he said.

The interviewer asked if he was urging people to stop complaining and asking the Government to help.

He replied: "No I didn't say that. I said that instead of people complaining, because that is what you are, you know, you have listed two or three opposition TDs who have complaints. I am saying that we could be more practical and give people suggestions.

"There is proof of everything I have just mentioned. I was very specific - ESB, electricity suppliers will say you can save if you switch your account. I have said the same with insurance, the same with mortgages the same with your banks the same happens with the supermarkets for the weekly shopping. 

"If you stay doing the same thing at the same price you'll end up paying more. If you move around you can get better prices and that is in our own hands. I think people are capable," he said.

Sarah McInerney asked what he would say to people who might say that what he was saying was out of touch and does not appreciate the people who are doing everything they can to make ends meat.

He replied: "I'm going to say to the people. Don't do as I say do as I do. I do the weekly shopping in my house for a long period of time and I know the prices in the supermarkets and I know the prices that offer different things at better prices.

"I've shopped around for my insurance like lots of people have and got a reduction. I've shopped around in relation to my health insurance to make sure I am getting the price and it does take time and effort. And, if people put in time and effort they can actually get reductions and I am saying these are things I have done," he said.

He was then asked what salary he was on.

He replied: "My net salary is about €1,000 per week," he said.

He was then asked what he would say to a person on social welfare of €200 per week and if shopping around would work for them as it works for him.

He replied: "The first thing I would say to somebody in that and lots of my neighbours are on State pension, old age pension, a fixed amount, the best thing to do is if you need to change your supermarket - change your supermarket. If you need whoever you order your oil from every so often do that to. If you need to change you can save a lot of money shifting your car insurance right. 

"These are things that apply to everybody on every income level we are talking about. If you switch your electricity supplier you will save money because if you are not saving money you shouldn't switch. If you switch you should be able to get benefits.

"They are all small things that add up to a considerable amount of money at the end of the day. And, even the €100 that's coming in the €113.50 that you will get off your electricity bill that is going to be a help next month as well. So I think that will impact on everybody.

"We have given the examples about the free fuel allowance. We have extended it. We have given the extra money this week on the budget that is still in place this year as we speak here today. The fuel allowance is continuing for more than another month so people are getting the benefit," he said.

The interviewer interrupted to say there are an awful lot of people listening who are going to feel very disappointed with what he is saying and felt he did not understand the situation that they are living in. She said there may be plenty of people who could do what he is suggesting but there are plenty of others who are at the pin of their collar who are not able to make ends meat who are looking at every bill rising and wages not rising at the same rate or if on social welfare not rising at all. 

He replied: "Well I am saying get the best value for the money you have in terms of the supermarkets you go to, if you order heating oil, who you order from. I think a lot of people understand that regardless of the level of income people are on. 

"Switch your electricity supplier and it can save you money. These are practical things," she said.

Sarah McInerney read out a comment from a Dublin listener who said he switches his electricity every year and he still has to pay €300 or €400 more than last year.

He replied: "Yeah well. I can't comment on his individual bill because I haven't seen that but, the examples I have given you, I think a lot of people know there is a lot of truth in what I say. In relation to supermarkets, the biggest bill that most people will have is their supermarket. I think if people...you won't get things...the average food shopping bill has gone up 1.5%. There's the figures I saw on RTÉ over the weekend - the weekly increase in the food and grocery bill over the last 12 months. You can even reduce it even if people are very careful in which particular shops they go to rather than going to the same shop every week".

Ms McInerney ended the interview by telling Minister Fleming that there was lots of reaction in response to his comments.

Listen back to the full interview HERE.